A Facebook discussion started yesterday
Status: KK Do you really think you know the IceSave agreement well enough to make a decision on whether it should stand or not? I hear so many people talk about it who I doubt have informed themselves enough about the issue.
IJ That is exactly right, what information do we “average people” have to form an opinion…
DL I agree with you wholeheartedly KK. I think so many people will vote in an uninformed way. I don’t know the first thing about this, haven’t studied the agreement and have no idea what it is about.
SLS My dear KK, this is all common sense, we sometimes tend to complicate things but if you study the issue then it is very simple. So simple that we can all understand it 
SLS And by the way we are not as average as the people who were going to make these decisions for us IJ. Don’t underestimate yourself.
KK Hehe you are funny SLS But if this were so simple then it would not still be complicating things in Iceland. The difference between us and the politicians which make the decisions for us is that they are the professionals which we voted for to make the decisions on our behalf. We trust them to review all the documents and make an enlightened decision while we are doing our jobs. In that way we are average. We do not live this every day. Whether the politicians are doing their job wholeheartedly is another matter altogether. I suspect that most people do not have the time, interest, desire or mindset to study the issue well. How well do we know ECOFIN and Basel 2 for example.
SLS We can hardly avoid getting to know the issue as it is in our ears all day long and you cannot open any media without it being there. Not everybody voted for this people and I don’t trust them to take this sort of a decision for me. The reason this is taking such a long time is that there is not an agreement on it, whether it is complicated or not. And we all have social responsibility. As our city’s poet laureate said back in the day: Every unborn generation while the star shines, needs your help immediately today….because while wrong is done which you could mend, and people fought while you sat by, is the world’s plight also your fault.
SLS And for those who do not know what Ecofin and Basel are, there is always GOOGLE.
Ecofin is an independent investment management firm which specialises in the global utility, infrastructure, alternative energy and environmental sectors. The firm, which was founded in 1992, is based in London and has offices in New York, Hong Kong and Geneva.
The Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and their Disposal is the most comprehensive global environmental agreement on hazardous and other wastes. The Convention has 172 Parties and aims to protect human health and the environment against the adverse effects resulting from the generation, management, transboundary movements and disposal of hazardous and other wastes. The Basel Convention came into force in 1992
FTP Totally agree with KK
KK Even if this is in the media 24/7 then it does not mean that people are paying attention. Even if you didn’t vote for the government then most of the people did. What other options do we have than representative democracy and majority coalition. Well spoken by the poet but unfortunately I think there are too few who are forming an enlightened opinion. You would have to google this in the first place!!!
RT Jesus Christ, I think my rental agreement is complicated enough. And I voted for people to represent me on these kinds of issues and I am paying them a salary to do so…
IJ I don’t think I am underestimating myself. I have not followed the Icesave issue enough in the media…one of the reasons is that I have a daughter who is very sensitive to these predictions of armageddon. If I were paid to study this then I would probably be just as fit as the MP’s in making a decision. But I am not.
UFE SLS, do you trust the media better to study the agreement, interpret it correctly and analyze in a simple, objective manner with all its pros and cons than MP’s to make the right decision after all the work they and their assistants have put into studying it and analyze thoroughly.
TR I trust myself perfectly to make an enlightened decision on this issue. Regarding our MP’s it unfortunately appears that their party’s position is more important to them than an enlightened decision.
KK TR, yes I trust you to make the decision given that you have studied it well. I just don’t think everyone else is. Unfortunately the parties’ grips on the country is too tight. Do we have a practical solution for that in the future?
SLV Besides everything else I have no interest whatsoever to study the issue and make an enlightened decision. I vote for people to go to Althing for that, to make decisions on issues which I am not interested in or have the capacity for. Additionally I am so sick and tired of this IceSave bullshit that most likely I will close my eyes and ears for this and not show up to vote.
EAH I so agree with you KK
JG Basel 2 actually revolves around European banking regulations, not transfer of hazardous wastes and their disposals. Google is apparantly not good enough.
And even if there are doubtful parts in the agreement, about Icelanders not having to pay, I think it is morally questionable. People we voted for, the ministers of the Independence Party, Geir, Arni Matt. and David Oddson maintained to British and Dutch supervisory authorities and governments that IceSave was backed by the state.
But obviously the referendum does not revolve around whether to pay or not (like I think SL and others believe) but the question is simply whether the deal is fair. Iceland’s responsibility was agreed upon this summer as a law in Althingi with a large majority and the president’s signature.
It might be possible to squeeze out a better agreement but I do not see that being more beneficial to us than getting these things clear so that we can start rebuilding the economy.
EAH I totally agree that people should make an enlightened decision about a better deal or not, hadn´t read the other posts.
SLV Aye, aye JG, there are two SL’s on this post and I am the one who knows this is not about whether we should pay or not
Dadi This google example shows the madness clearly…like JG points out then Basel II is something very different from what google told SL and ECOFIN is too…it is not a private investment firm in the IceSave scope of things but the reference is to a meeting between European Union finance ministers on November 14 2008 and a report which followed…
But it is good that that is clear to everyone…
RT Great, the referendum will be based on information from Google…I wonder if people know that they teach whole courses on online information gathering?
KK Yes, I also understood this in that way EAH I haven’t been revealing my position here, yes or no on the bill. JG and Dadi, thanks for the information…we who don’t study this must now trust that you are providing us with the correct information 
SLV Facebook is the place where the nation’s heart beats…
SLS This sucks that we live in such an uninformed society where people are ready to go out into the streets to protest things they cannot bother to study!!! Sad to hear from my namesake that you are not interested and are just prepared to swallow anything because you don’t have the time (worst excuse in the world)!!!!!!
Good to get information on Basel and ECOFIN. Especially as that is what we are discussing here!!! But I am sure most people would study it well if needed (except for my namesake who doesn’t have the time)
My dear JG, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE ABOUT TO VOTE ON!!!! (and you know that I know too ) and I just hope that in time we get MUCH MUCH better agreements than those being forced on us now and I a believe wholeheartedly that it will happen and that we will be better off afterwards and don’t lose out on waiting. Good to see from TR that some people still can afford advise on rental agreements. You are alright. Google is a fine search engine for most people and works well. I would recommend that people make honest and well informed decision based on their own conviction and interest. IJ, you are being paid to study these things because you have to pay this. The question is just how much. Those are your wages. I am not surprised that the little kid is worried when her mother can’t be bothered to study these things for her. You who are supposed to be her role model We have lots of well educated people doing investigative reporting, bringing us all sorts of information, differently good of course and it is up to us to choose and reject like anything else which is offered to us in a modern society, for example what baby’s food and nappies are good for our kids, where should we send our kids to school and what is right and wrong, and for how long does this seem right and the other wrong????
We have to choose every hour of our life, and then it is up to us to prioritise what matters most at each given time. Unfortunately the facts are not always presented in news and we see more and more instances of journalists being wrong and do not gather enough information before feeding us the news and our opinions directed by badly informed people. I just hope that this little discussion here will get some souls who haven’t BOTHERED or wanted to inform themselves (because it is very simple) to get interested to be involved in decisions on their future and their offsprings future instead of wasting VALUABLE time banging pots and pans in Austurvollur. I hope those people make a informed decision about their future and their offsprings future and encourage others to do so. That is what I intend to do, because I don’t trust an old, gray-haired, uneducated, sexually confused air hostess to do that for me or my children and those I care about ( and it so happens that this includes you my dear JG )
SLV Obviously my namesake has a lot of tolerance for those with a different opinion from her, but doesn’t seem sensitive to that…
But seeing as you don’t trust an old, gray-haired, sexually confused air-hostess to value this (despite her having been in Althingi for decades and should know a thing or two) – do you trust the people who work on the register in Bonus to do this, the CEO’s in the companies with millions in wages and the people who cannot hardly read anything but the gossip pages in the papers? Or maybe the good members of the opposition who change their mind every day? These are the people who are supposed to vote and do not have 13 or 15 months to involve themselves and examine and argue like Althingi. Me and KK are not examples of the dumbest women in the country and this is confusing to us, so how confusing is this to those less educated and understanding of complex issues. And what will the benefits be once this is accepted with a majority vote? Or rejected and we cannot get a better agreement, even worse? Then we have spent months and kronas which could have been put to better use on nothing. I have said so many times that I wish I was wrong. Of course I hope to wake up tomorrow and there is a will to cancel out IceSave or lower the bill seriously but unfortunately I have not heard anything indicating that possibility. Maybe I am too pessimistic and should inject more Pollyanna-drugs or borrow some of the fiery belief of my namesake above, but as I have to spend 200% of my tiem to try to hold on to what little I have got in the situation here like so many others of my countrymen…those who still hold onto their jobs and haven’t lost everything while Althingi argues over IceSave
Dadi An old, gray-haired, uneducated, sexually confused air-hostess?????
This discussion has obviously been raised to a more constructive plateu.
Dadi In lieu of that I suggest that every old person, gray haired persons, sexually confused persons and air-hostesses will be excluded from taking part in the national referendum as they obviously cannot be trusted.
IJ SLS you are punching below the belt when criticizing the way I raise my children which you have no knowledge of. It is unfortunate when these discussions start turning into personal attacks.
SLV My dear Dadi, have these discussions ever been on a high plateu? If it were so then this would have been solved a long time ago.
JG This was an incredibly rotten thing to say SL, prejudiced and wicked. You should be ashamed. It probably describes your party cohorts best. Are responsible for the economic crash but now they pretend to know nothing about it. And are just prejudiced.
Johanna Sigurdardottir might have been a little educated air-hostess 50 years or so ago, but since she has taken care of an fought for those who are less fortunate in our society and is therefore maybe better educated than anyone else to lead the nation…
And it is because of her work that people who lose their jobs are being taken care of as well as single mothers to name some. By the way SL, weren‘t you able to depend on single mother benefits when you were single with your infant son?
SLV Oops, is my namesake an Independence Party supporter.
SLS Hold on a minute JG. Have you forgotten who were in government??? Wasn‘t Johanna‘s party in government with the Independence Party??? Are the Social Democrats now whitewashed? Sure JG, you know how wicked I am
and that she is an old-yes, gray-haired-yes, uneducated-yes, air-hostess-yes. Badly worded and a little rough-yes, but all true none the less. I am not prejudiced against her, even if I don‘t like her way of governing things and don‘t think she is making the right decisions in certain matters. And of course she has matured and learned a few things in the last fifty years.
I thought you knew I don‘t know how to feel ashamed and I am not going to start with that right now
My personal views are mine solely and I am responsible for them and I form them totally according to my own convictions, well informed and totally honest and I won‘t let others control them or influence them, unlike so many others who let themselves be controlled by crowds and orders. This is what you ought to know best, since we so often argue over a cup of coffee at my place.
That I got single mother benefits at that time is a whole different matter and not thanks to Johanna at all as it was so long ago and the benefits didn‘t go very far and only lasted six months at the time. These were and are the only benefits I have accepted from the Icelandic state, I have fortunately been able to take care of myself and I am proud of it. I am not keen on us chasing the Nordic countries with their social benefit systems which breeds losers. You know I have lots of experience from those systems as I lived in different places in the Nordic countries for twelwe years. But that is not what we are talking about here.
There are lots of foreign, well-educated people, doctors, MBA‘s etc. working the registers at Bonus who do not get jobs according to their skills but are proud and get by without abusing our social system. I personally know a lot of these people and have been helping them get ahead in this country. Yes and CEO‘s with millions in wages are totally able to survey the situation and make independent decisions. Check, I know them as well.
The people who cannot read are not necessarily stupid even if they might have dyslexia and being uneducated like Johanna as JG said correctly then it is not necessarily the academic way which suits everyone and people can be smart as hell without it. Check, know those people as well.
Fortunately our president didn‘t approve state guarantees on the IceSave bill and asked for a national referendum. Ef he hadn‘t then we would not have gotten this much attention from other European nations who are now pointing out new possibilities and new ways (which is POSITIVE for us) as is happening now and we would still be controlled by fear and minority complex towards other nations.
Dadi I am suddenly finding myself agreeing with the president that this is obviously a decision which is going to bring the nation closer together. A nation which obviously can be trusted to make an enlightened and sensible decision on this matter.
That being said I would like to note that I cannot feel much respect for people who use the term sexually confused and then try to justify it. It does not bear good witness to those who use it.
Secondly I want to bet my hat and my horse on that the policies which the Independence Party has offered us in the last twenty years will breed more losers than the Nordic system ever has (I am partly to blame for this tragedy because I have sometimes voted for the Independence Party but I would never think of blaming Johanna and Steingrimur for the mess our country is in).
Finally I find it outrageously funny to hear Independence Party supporters suddenly call Olaf Ragnar grimsson “our president”. Whatever happened to the “Pig in Bessastadir”?
Related posts:
- Silly Debate On IceSave
- Complexity Of IceSave Too Much For Althingi?
- IceSave: A Straightforward Matter?
Iceland’s Finance Minister and the heads of the opposition Independence Party and Progressive Party will meet today with the banking ministers of the Netherlands and the UK.
Proposals into how best to prevent the use of the niqab and burka have been called for by the Danish government. The majority of Danes support the government’s stance against the wearing of the veils by Muslim women in the streets while Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen has said the dress code is not welcomed inside Danish educational institutions.
Lithuanian Minister for Foreign Affairs, Vygaudas Usackas, has followed his Latvian counterpart’s lead. Both have now spoken out and defended Iceland on its decision to have a referendum in regards to the Icelandic bank “Icesave” bankruptcy and its debts to Great Britain and the Netherlands.
The majority of Danes have declared that they are in favour of tougher painkiller laws, with a review of legislation that governs access to the medication being called for by the country’s politicians.
A move by the Danish People’s Party aims to ensure that favourable share options and giant bonuses for bank executives are done away with – even if they are from banks that did not figure in the government-sponsored bank crisis packages.
The publisher of Iceland’s DV newspaper and former aide to the Prime Minister, Hreinn Loftsson says in an opinion piece that the Icesave question will not be satisfactorily answered without the assistance of high-level and impartial international help. He believes Althingi and the Icelandic government should ask Bill Clinton to work for them as a mediator.
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